Interview with Peter Wynne-Thomas - archivist at Trent Bridge
Tuesday 8 July 2008PWT Well I mean certainly the reason for Bodyline was the fact that somebody had invented Bradman and you couldn’t get him out basically. He was breaking record after record. In 1930 he scored 334 at Leeds - which was a new record and his scores were phenomenal. 1930 was the first time he came to England but in domestic cricket in Australia. The other problem was of course that the wickets in Australia were greatly in favour of batsmen in general. Ponsford obviously was another batsman was the only guy to score two scores over 400 so the batting had got much better than the bowling. It was 1931 that the wickets were increased in size which was also a factor. Jardine thought Bradman had a weakness on the leg side this was the important thing about it and the same time it was absolutely vital that you had a bowler who was accurate because you had to bowl on the leg stump if the ball strayed on the leg side outside the leg stump then the batsman could just ignore it so you had to realise that if you could play the ball then the chances are you would be bowled out. Larwood was the only bowler who was consistently accurate enough to do this.
PWT The West Indies had tried it as you probably realised. They were just as fast as Larwood with people like Constantine and Larwood but they were not as accurate. There’s a number of examples where someone complained about the fast batsman bowling at the batsman and the batsman saying well that doesn’t matter they’re so blooming inaccurate we can just hook them. So the real element of this is the accuracy of Larwood in comparison with everybody else. Of course, added to that the Australian didn’t have an equivalent bowler. The accuracy of the bowler was the main question mark. Alexander was brought in but he just wasn’t accurate enough. In 1921 they’d had Gregory and MacDonald but by 1930s McDonald had gone to Lancashire and got killed in a car crash. Gregory was finished. They were relying mainly on spin bowlers. So they had Grimmett and later O’Reilly. Spin was their main method of attack.
MP Wasn’t there a Notts match when Voce and Larwood were playing something like Bodyline?
PWT The Whitsun match of 1932. Larwood and Voce are playing and Jardine’s playing. Mind you this is the. Gover – the Surrey fast bowler hit George Gunn on the head and ended his career. Jardine was obviously captain of Surrey? Was he captain of Surrey. Of course he was. Both matches were ruined by the weather. There’s nothing in the report that mentions that so it doesn’t look as though it’s in the Notts / Surrey matches. Voce did better – he got 4 wickets on both occasions. I can’t remember which county match it was.
MP That maybe sewed a seed that triggered this meeting at the Piccadilly Grill House?
PWT Was Larwood at that meeting or was it just Carr and Jardine? The other one who was somehow vaguely connected was F. R Foster. Went to Australia in 1911 / 12. I know he had a lot to say – unfortunately we don’t have his autobiography. Arthur Carr turned more and more to speed, bowling at the leg stump.
MP The aim was really to hit the stumps rather than to hit the batsman?
PWT It was during the match at the Oval which we’ve just looked the score up of. Although it took some time to warm up Larwood and Voce, It was a bit of a strange cove was Mr Foster he ended up by going mad. That is an important chapter. I don’t know how you’re going to do the play. Almost a scene In a Piccadilly grill with these characters.
MP All of these scenes are affected by how these characters saw each other.
PWT Especially as Jardine was a very standoffish person. Carr was the other way round. He was adored by his players. He drove an open top car with a dickie seat. Where the boot is – the boot opened up and it was actually a seat. It hinged at the bottom and that formed a seat. He was stopped by a policeman – a drunken player in the back had fallen out of his car. Another story – when he was appointed captain of England in 1926. As soon as he heard about it he went to a showroom in Nottingham bought a brand new green sports car. Drove back to Trent Bridge and drove straight into a lamppost. His comment on that was green wasn’t really my lucky colour. Whether this carefree attitude was the result of fighting in the first world war, he’d survived and so many of his chums were killed. He drank tremendous amount When he was out at TB he’d disappear off to Nottingham Racecourse. His players loved him. Because he was so friendly and well meant. The disaster was after Bodyline he acted as Larwood’s advisor. He talked to the press. He was thinking off the top off his head. He was the wrong person to advise Larwood. When the ship came back from Australia I think he met Larwood in Marseille. They took him back to England with him and the press of course everyone wanted to talk to Larwood he acted as a PR. Carr wasn’t interested in making a fortune out of it.
MP Around this table there was Larwood, Voce, Carr and Jardine – how would the conversation have gone?
PWT The conversation would have been mainly between Jardine and Carr – they were both public school people. So at the end the two cricketers sat there with theor pint of beer and said nothing unless they were directly asked. Carr’s father made a fortune on the Stock Exchange. His father wanted to move on Hunting Country. Carr was thrown out of Eton because he never did anything. He was at Cambridge for all of five minutes. He managed to get into Sherbourne. As it happened the coach was Tom Bowley, a Nottingham professional, he was the one who advised Notts that they had a cricketer in the making.
MP Him and Jardine would have been very much on the same wavelength?
PWT Carr is effectively a hunting shooting guy the son of a stockbroker. Jardine is a son ofa Lawyer in India. Solicitor General.
MP So when Jardine and Voce were brought back to Notts after the Ashes was there a great change in how they were treated or received here?
PWT Well unfortunately Larwood was injured and didn’t play for in 1933. Voce played through but Voce never said anything. I chatted with him early on a few occasions. He was a very quiet man. I wrote this essay about him and handed it to him and he said well you’ve got it nearly right there but he didn’t say anything else about it. He could stick up for himself. Talking for other people. He coached me when I was a schoolboy. He was 6 foot 1. Well built. Rather forbidding character. I dunno – they were both very quiet people who didn’t really say anything.
MP That’s the difficulty of trying to write dialogue for them…
PWT Yes it is – dialogue when you’ve got to find people to do the Nottinghamshire accent which noone can do. Sounds like Yorkshire and Lancashire. It’s a devil to do. The mine manager broight him to TB. He had the offer of appearing on the staff at TB. The manager brought him to meet the cricket committee – the main man was John Godber – formidable amateur who had captained Nottinghamshire in the 1890s. They offered him a pound a week and he asked for more. So in the end he and the manager went down into the Long Room and he was quite embarrassed that this 17 year old youth had had the audacity to ask for more money. He should have been grateful that Notts wanted him to play on the staff rather than demanding an extra 5 bob a week but I’m pretty certain that at that time he was the main bread winner. He was young and supporting his mother I think. His brother came on the staff later on but never played for the first team.
MP Off the pitch – where were Larwood and Voce living?
PWT They both lived in Nuncargate and Annesley – which were connecting villages. They both worked at the Annesley coalmine. They would have come by train. Most of the players got a train allowance or something. They would have gone to where the old train station was – they would have ended up at Midland station and walked down Arkwright Street. At some stage or other Larwood bought a car – he had a famous crash when he was racing against the team lorry. Just down Loughborough Road – what year would that have been – it was obviously in the Thirties. George Gunn Jnr was driving the team lorry with all the gear on. They raced down Loughborough Road and there were photos of Larwood’s Car in the paper bashed up – I think he had Staples with him – but two or three of the team were injured. They had to bring new people in the for the next match. He went to Australia in 1928/29 and he played in the Test Matches in 1930. I would have thought he would have bought a car by then.
MP How much would they have earned?
PWT In 1924 Larwood was £3 a week for 20 weeks. The rest of the weeks you’re down the coal mine. The other 32 weeks. A lot of them were miners. In 1925 George Gunn accepted a post on the groundstaff at 30 shillings a work. This is George Gunn Jnr – he was a bit of a ne’erdowell – he’d get a job. He got £2 in the winter and £3 in the summer. 1927 Voce – 3 years. 32 weeks at £2 and 20 weeks at £3. That’s 1927. Well you see I don’t know when. Larwood had a small holding and grew flowers and things. I don’t know when that started.
MP I’m trying to trace some of their early years – mining and playing cricket?
PWT They would have played 14 home matches. According to the books they got £9 a match - away matches they got £11 because they had to pay for accommodation. They got rail fares which was coming into Nottingham - £24. So if they played in every match they got £428 per year – this was the top class players. Less £1 from the groundstaff pay for each home match played. Then deducted £1 a week.
MP What would the attitude of the other miners when Larwood and Voce came back?
PWT In fact I’m sure I did interview quite a number of players and they got paid better down the mine than they did playing for Nottinghamshire. A lot of them said they couldn’t afford to play for Nottinghamshire.
MP It’s always going to be a little bit more in terms of risk – except when its Bodyline! In terms of doing two jobs at once. There’s that glamorised scene in Bodyline when Larwood is bowling with a lump of coal at a dustbin.
PWT All the collieries had a cricket team and colliery owners were keen cricketers. Some of them were on the committee at TB and if you looked as though you were going to be a good cricketer so the manager or the owner would bring you down here. If you looked like being a decent cricketer you got a cushier job in the mine basically. Larwood looked after the ponies I think. He was a pit pony boy. Didn’t he work for the Co-op and then when he was 15 he went down the mines. They were friends. The two or three times that Larwood came over here, the first person he went to see was Bill Voce and they came to the ground together. Despite the fact the Voce resumed his Test Career but Larwood didn’t. They came back in 1977. That was the year before I started the library. I wrote to him. I heard back from his wife because his eyesight was failing.
MP When did you first come to TB?
PWT I first came in 1948. My great hero was Joe Hardstaff and there were players like Harris - who was a practical joker – Harris would carefully exaggeratedly block four balls and then dispatch the next ball for four. Balancing his false teeth from the bails. Waling out with a lighted candle when he though the light was too bad to play.
MP You heard Jardine speak?
PWT Sometime in the Winter of 1952/53 – he was invited to speak to the university – first of all the hall was full and he was trained as a Lawyer so had a very deliberate way of talking. I can’t remember what he was saying but I remember how he said it.
MP He died in Switzerland and his ashes were scattered in Loch Lomond. I’m quite interested in this idea of how people are remembered and how they want to be remembered. This idea of The Ashes – as the title of the play – I’m not sure how much I should delve into the personal – in terms of Larwood would his ashes have been scattered anywhere significant.
PWT The problem is there aren’t really many older men left to talk to anymore. When the statue was unveiled. There weren’t many people left who had played with Larwood at Nuncargate. The memories we’ve got from various broadcasts are maybe what people have heard from their Dads. Stories passed down though the generations,
MP I suppose if you grow up in that shadow then it must be very difficult.
PWT The classic thing is the two Gunns. George Gunn’s father. If young George was half as good as he thinks he is he’d be a Genius.
MP There’s a photograph of Larwood and Voce together. What would that have been?
PWT One of the Notts supported helped to pay for Larwood to come over. Subsidised his air fare. Of course – when Larwood came here as guest of the club – Voce who was living in Hucknall would come down as well and they meet up here. They would also go to Nuncargate. The photograph is at Nuncargate isn’t it? The colour one. I’m pretty certain it has the Nuncargate pavilion in the background.
MP I noticed in the penultimate test in Australia – Archie Jackson passed away.
PWT He played in 1930 and I don’t think he played much else. Jardine quotes his thoughts on Bodyline – he thought it was perfectly legitimate. I’ll get the Larwood file out. There’s a photo of Gracie Fields in here somewhere.
